Let it begin..... Presidential Chat Thread John McCain (R) vs. Barack Obama (D)

[Bluemyboy]

Lots of time till the General Election..... and plenty of time to decide. But lots in the way of news to come over this period.

http://www.claybennett.com/images/archivetoons2/audition.jpg



http://i28.photobucket.com/albums/c233/adamslifeblog/mccain.jpg

[THE HITMAN]

obama will not get my vote. IMO, he is just an eloquent speech that is floating over the landscape, waiting for an idea to attach himself to.

[Vapster]

Has Hillary Lost Yet?! Till then...I'm not saying nothin...

[chameleons53]

Has Hillary Lost Yet?! Till then...I'm not saying nothin...
VAPS, Is that Hillary's picture?

[Vapster]

Stop It Already! That's Bush's Daughter! HAHA!!!

[Bluemyboy]

lol

Vap, if Dems want to keep em both on the ballot that is cool with me.

Lets say that Obama wins the for the dems, who are the VPs for both sides? We have a lot to talk about, and that is before we even start talking issues.....

If McCain goes with Mitt I will pretty much know my vote as I really liked Romney. But, we'll see. I have a hard time seeing myself sway towards Obama, but a lot can change, I'll try and hold an open mind as long as possible.

[Vapster]

I'd say I lean Dem, but I always vote for who I think will do a better job...

[Vapster]

As a kid growing up my dad told me there is two things you shouldn't talk about unless your ready for a knock down fight...Religion and Politics...And you know there would be no wars, if we didn't have either right?! What starts every war?! If it ain't your government, it's because someone tells you god says so...

[pops]

they sunk the almight ship with lies and bs!

[Bluemyboy]

Obama considers Iraq visit amid GOP criticism http://cache.boston.com/resize/bonzai-fba/AP_Photo/2008/05/29/1212080237_1768/539w.jpg Democratic presidential hopeful, Sen. Barack Obama, D-Ill., talks with the media aboard his plane en route to Chicago, Wednesday, May 28, 2008. (AP Photo/Chris Carlson)

Text size – + May 29, 2008
WASHINGTON—Barack Obama -- increasingly under fire from John McCain as he appears poised to win the Democratic nomination -- said he is considering a trip to Iraq but dismissed as a "political stunt" an invitation by the Republican candidate to make the visit together.
more stories like this




McCain and Obama have increasingly targeted each other as a November general election showdown between the two men seems inevitable. The discussion about Iraq, largely sidelined during the primary battle, is likely to factor prominently in the general election and Obama has rallied to counter McCain's criticism that he lacks foreign policy experience.
Obama, who is now just 44 delegates shy of the 2,026 needed to claim the nomination and drive rival Hillary Rodham Clinton out of the race, could win the White House nod as early as Sunday if he fares well in Puerto Rico's primary.
Puerto Rico's primary, the island's first in nearly three decades, has brought attention to a U.S. territory where residents cannot vote in the general election and largely do not identify with any mainland party.
But, with 55 delegates to be apportioned between him and Clinton, eyes are on the territory because Obama could theoretically clinch the nomination if he beats his rival. Clinton is counting on a victory to bolster her claim to have won the majority of popular votes based on a selective count of Democratic contests.
The Democrat, vying to become the U.S.'s first black president, told The <org idsrc="NYSE" value="NYT">New York Times</org> that the possible trip would be to talk to the U.S. troops and commanders and not to "try to score political points or perform."
McCain, a decorated Navy pilot and former Vietnam prisoner of war, has built much of his candidacy on his foreign policy and national security experience. While he supports continued U.S. military involvement in Iraq, Obama has called for a quick withdrawal of the troops.
In a campaign appearance in Nevada, a western U.S. state where both candidates have recently sought to shore up support ahead of the November race, McCain said Obama was "driven to his position by ideology and not by the facts on the ground"
McCain, who has been to Iraq eight times, said the first-term Democrat senator "does not have the knowledge or the experience to make the judgments. Presidents have to listen and learn. Presidents have to make judgments no matter how popular or unpopular they may be."
The Republican Party joined the fray Wednesday by launching an online clock to count the days since Obama last visited the war zone. By their count, it has been 871 days.
Obama, who spoke to reporters on his airplane Wednesday night as he flew home to Chicago, said it's "not relevant" that he has not been to Iraq since 2006 and that McCain was using the argument as a diversion.
Obama made his only trip to Iraq in January 2006 as part of a congressional delegation.
McCain, who was on a fundraising trip with events in Los Angeles and Reno, Nevada, seemed offended that Obama characterized the invitation for a joint trip as a political stunt, saying it showed Obama's "lack of appreciation of the importance of this issue."
Obama picked up some fresh support heading Puerto Rico's contest. He secured the backing of four more superdelegates Wednesday but lost one. On Thursday he gained one more. Their backing is essential because they are free to vote as they chose in the party's nominating convention in August.
Clinton campaigned Wednesday in South Dakota which along with Montana hold the last two primaries on June 3. Her campaign aides were in Washington peppering uncommitted superdelegates with data indicating why she should be the Democratic presidential nominee.
Obama has 1,982 delegates, to Clinton's 1,780.
Clinton also is counting on a Democratic Party rules committee Saturday to seat the delegations from Michigan and Florida, whose primaries were voided when they were moved into January in violation of party rules.
Obama is willing to give her the lion's share of those delegates but is stopping short of her demand to fully recognize the two renegade states.
The DNC staff wrote in an analysis sent to members this week that the rules call for the two states to lose at least half their delegates at a minimum for voting too early.http://cache.boston.com/bonzai-fba/File-Based_Image_Resource/dingbat_story_end_icon.gif
© Copyright 2008 Associated Press. All rights reserved. This material may not be published, broadcast, rewritten, or redistributed.

[Bluemyboy]

Obama's Friend and Financier Owes $800k In Vegas
Thursday, May 29, 2008
Posted by: Hugh Hewitt at 8:26 PM

Obama's friend, neighbor, mentor and financier Tony Rezko waits for the jury to come back in Chicago, and while he does, more bad news arrives from Las Vegas:




A Las Vegas judge has issued a felony arrest warrant for a politically connected Chicago businessman whose ties to Democratic presidential contender Barack Obama have become an issue in the campaign.

Antoin “Tony” Rezko, who is standing trial on federal corruption charges in Chicago, is wanted in Las Vegas for failing to pay $472,275 in gambling debts to Caesars Palace and Bally’s and related processing fees to the Clark County district attorney’s office.

The total unpaid Strip bill comes to more than $800,000, however, because the Bellagio obtained a judgment of default against Rezko a year ago for not repaying $331,000 in gambling markers.

A federal jury has been deliberating Rezko’s fate the past two weeks following two months of testimony in a corruption trial linked to the administration of Illinois Gov. Rod Blagojevich.

http://hughhewitt.townhall.com/blog/g/f08d4423-e188-40d5-b331-05508d8b5d5e (http://hughhewitt.townhall.com/blog/g/f08d4423-e188-40d5-b331-05508d8b5d5e)

[pops]

easy winner where my upside down elephant

[Bluemyboy]

Congress Considers Windfall Tax On Oil Companies

CBS13/CW31 (http://www.topix.net/redir/loc=off-hosted-page/http=3A=2F=2Fcbs13.com)
June 10, 2008
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Original CBS13/CW31 article: Congress Considers Windfall Tax On Oil Companies http://64.13.133.31/pics/icon_offsite.png (http://cbs13.com/business/congress.oil.prices.2.744560.html)

With gasoline prices topping $4 a gallon, Senate Democrats (http://www.topix.net/us) want the government to grab some of the billions of dollars in profits being taken in by the major oil companies.

Senators were to vote Tuesday on whether to consider a windfall profits tax against the five largest U.S. oil companies and rescind $17 billion in tax breaks the companies expect to enjoy over the next decade.

"The oil companies need to know that there is a limit on how much profit they can take in this economy," said Sen. Richard Durbin (http://www.topix.net/us-senate/richard-durbin) of Illinois, the Senate's No. 2 Democrat (http://www.topix.net/us/democrat), warning that if energy prices are not reined in "we're going to find ourselves in a deep recession."

But the Democrats are going to have to overcome staunch Republican opposition to any new taxes on the oil industry. The five largest U.S. oil companies earned $36 billion during the first three months of the year.

Majority Leader Harry Reid, D-Nev., will need 60 votes Tuesday to proceed with the oil tax legislation in the face of a threatened GOP filibuster. If he doesn't get 60, he likely will pull the bill from the floor.

Only last week, Reid was forced to withdraw a measure aimed at addressing global warming, falling short of the 60 votes needed to advance that legislation.

The Democrats' energy package also would:

Make oil and gas price gouging a federal crime, with stiff penalties of up to $5 million during a presidentially declared energy emergency.

Authorize the Justice Department to bring charges of price fixing against countries that belong to the OPEC (http://www.topix.net/world/opec) oil cartel.

Require traders to put up more collateral in the energy futures markets to curb speculation.

Republican leader Mitch McConnell of Kentucky has acknowledged that Americans are hurting from the high energy costs but strongly opposes the Democrats' response and has ridiculed those who "think we can tax our way out of this problem."

Oil executives, testifying before Congress last month, called the proposed taxes "punitive" and warned that they would discourage domestic oil and gas exploration and production, possibly causing prices to rise instead of fall.

The American Petroleum Institute, which represents the major oil companies, has been reminding lawmakers that in the early 1980s, when the government imposed windfall profits taxes on oil companies domestic oil production dropped and imports increased.

But Democrats reject the comparison.

The Senate proposal would impose a 25 percent tax on profits over what would be determined "reasonable" and would allow oil companies to avoid paying the tax if they invest the money in alternative energy (http://www.topix.net/tech/alt-energy) projects or refinery expansion.

The tax breaks that would be rescinded, given by Congress over the past five years, are expected to save the five largest oil companies about $17 billion over the next 10 years. The Democratic proposal would funnel the money into tax incentives for renewable energy sources such as wind and solar, and to promote energy efficiency and conservation.

Most Senate Republicans have a different approach to dealing with the growing energy crisis - pump more oil and gas.

The GOP energy plan, rejected by the Senate last month, calls for opening a coastal strip of the Arctic National Wildlife Refuge in Alaska to oil development and to allow states to opt out of the national moratorium that has been in effect for a quarter century against oil and gas drilling in more than 80 percent of the country's coastal waters.

"Republicans by and large believe that the solution to this problem, in part, is to increase domestic production," said McConnell.

[Bluemyboy]

Newsweek Poll: Obama drops like a rock

posted at 6:53 pm on July 11, 2008 by Ed Morrissey
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Last month, Newsweek’s poll (http://www.newsweek.com/id/142465) surprised many by showing a huge gap between Barack Obama and John McCain, with the Democratic nominee-apparent enjoying a 15-point lead over the Republican. One month later, Obama has lost all of the momentum and has dropped into a virtual tie with McCain. The latest Newsweek poll (http://www.newsweek.com/id/145737) shows Obama up 44-41, within the margin of error:A month after emerging victorious from the bruising Democratic nominating contest, some of Barack Obama (http://www.newsweek.com/related.aspx?subject=Barack+Obama)’s glow may be fading. In the latest NEWSWEEK Poll (http://www.newsweek.com/id/145556), the Illinois senator leads Republican nominee John McCain (http://www.newsweek.com/related.aspx?subject=John+McCain) by just 3 percentage points, 44 percent to 41 percent. The statistical dead heat is a marked change from last month’s NEWSWEEK Poll (http://www.newsweek.com/id/142465), where Obama led McCain by 15 points, 51 percent to 36 percent.

Obama’s rapid drop comes at a strategically challenging moment for the Democratic candidate. Having vanquished Hillary Clinton (http://www.newsweek.com/related.aspx?subject=Hillary+Clinton) in early June, Obama quickly went about repositioning himself for a general-election audience–an unpleasant task for any nominee emerging from the pander-heavy primary contests and particularly for a candidate who’d slogged through a vigorous primary challenge in most every contest from January until June. Obama’s reversal on FISA legislation (http://blog.washingtonpost.com/the-trail/2008/06/20/obama_supports_fisa_legislatio.html), his support of faith-based initiatives (http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2008/07/03/AR2008070302453.html) and his decision to opt out of the campaign public-financing system left him open to charges he was a flip-flopper (http://www.newsweek.com/id/143863). In the new poll, 53 percent of voters (and 50 percent of former Hillary Clinton supporters) believe that Obama has changed his position on key issues in order to gain political advantage. http://www.therxforum.com/images/smilies/hola2.gif

More seriously, some Obama supporters worry that the spectacle of their candidate eagerly embracing his old rival, Hillary Clinton, and traveling the country courting big donors at lavish fund-raisers, may have done lasting damage to his image as an arbiter of a new kind of politics (http://www.newsweek.com/related.aspx?subject=Politics). This is a major concern since Obama’s outsider credentials, have, in the past, played a large part in his appeal to moderate, swing voters. In the new poll, McCain leads Obama among independents 41 percent to 34 percent, with 25 percent favoring neither candidate. In June’s NEWSWEEK Poll, Obama bested McCain among independent voters, 48 percent to 36 percent.
<!--AD BEGIN-->The sample probably provides the quickest analysis of why Newsweek got such a wide variance in their polling [see update below]. The June sample had 324 Democrats to only 231 Republicans, and the overall sample size was smaller. In July, they may have swung a little too far the other way, with 324 Democrats again but 315 Republicans. The actual difference in registration figures are wider than that, but not nearly as wide as June’s sample.

But there is a definite momentum away from Obama, especially within the independents. June’s poll, taken only three weeks ago, had Obama ahead by 12 points, 48-36. Obama has lost a whopping 14 points among independents and now trails McCain, 34-41. “Undecided/Other” rose among independents from 16% in June to 25% in July, which likely shows flirtation with third-party candidates such as Ralph Nader and Bob Barr — but some went to McCain as well.

The Hillary Clinton supporters didn’t show any real movement at all. They went 70/17 in the new poll, and in June went 69/18. Despite Obama’s suggestion that he attracts Republicans in large numbers, the crossover vote is almost identical, just as it was last month.

Newsweek speculates that Obama’s embrace of Hillary has damaged his brand of New Politics. That did a lot less damage than Barack Obama’s series of policy reversals and gaffes over that three-week period. He has revealed himself as an empty suit and a pandering rookie, and he certainly didn’t need Hillary to point that out.

Update: A reader points out that the last page of the polling data shows a R/D/I split of 28/35/33, which doesn’t match the raw sample numbers. The report states that Newsweek weighted the data in accordance with demographic information from the Census Bureau. If they weighted the sample to this degree, then Obama’s in much bigger trouble than I first thought.

[Bluemyboy]

btw, last year when I was looking at this stuff and lines that were out.... I swear the repubs had the pin shade going on..... it is going to be a McCain win this year, at the very least it will be much closer then many believe.

[Bluemyboy]

last line I saw had mcCain at like +200

puhleeze.

[Laney11]

One thing about politics guys...It's unpredictable! I have been involved with it since I was 14 and what appears to be the case in July can be reversed easily by November.
There could be a scandal, attack, economy could change...better or worse that crazy preacher might resurface again. I can tell you one thing for sure. It will be close!

[Bluemyboy]

7 Worrisome Signs for Obama
Posted: <script language="JavaScript">var wn_last_ed_date = getLEDate("Aug 11, 2008 9:22 AM EST"); document.write(wn_last_ed_date);</script>Aug 11, 2008 06:22 AM


By Glenn Thrush


A few weeks back, Time magazine was musing that John McCain was in danger of sliding from "a long shot" to a "no-shot."
Around the same time, a hard-nosed former Hillary Clinton insider declared the race "effectively over" thanks to the McCain campaign's ineptitude, the tanking U.S. economy and Obama's advantages in cash, charisma and hope.
And Obama, up by three to six points nationally, was about to leverage a much-anticipated trip to Iraq, Afghanistan and Europe into a pre-convention poll surge.

Instead, his supporters are now suffering a pre-Denver panic attack, watching as John McCain draws incrementally closer in state and national polls -- with Rasmussen's most recent daily national tracker showing a statistical dead heat.

Meanwhile, Hillary Clinton has been privately enumerating her doubts about Obama to supporters, according to people who have spoken with her. Clinton's pollster Mark Penn recently unveiled a PowerPoint presentation red-flagging Obama's lukewarm leads among white female voters and Hispanics -- while predicting a five-point swing could turn a presumed Obama win into a McCain landslide.

"It's not that people think McCain will win -- it's that they are realizing that McCain could win," says Quinnipiac University pollster Peter Brown, whose surveys show tight races in Michigan, Ohio, Pennsylvania and Florida. "This election is about Barack Obama -- not John McCain -- it's about whether Barack Obama passes muster. Every poll shows that people want a Democratic president, the problem is they're not sure they want Barack Obama."
Obama's aides point to the stability of his small national lead, say they aren't worried about his summer stall and think his numbers will improve when voters begin tuning in to the conventions.

"This is a country that is looking for a fundamentally different direction and John McCain offers nothing but the status quo," said spokesman Bill Burton, adding that he wasn't "losing any sleep" over his boss's rough patch.

The campaign's confidence may turn out to be justified but two weeks prior to the national convention there are more than a few worrisome signs for Obama. Here are seven:

1. Race. "The idea that Obama was going to win in a blowout was always preposterous," says former Nebraska senator and onetime presidential hopeful Bob Kerrey, an Obama backer. "A big piece of this, of course, is whether white people are going to support a black guy... If [Obama] is a tall, skinny white guy named Paul Jones it's a different story."

Obama is running nearly neck-and-neck with McCain among white voters in most polls, a major cause for optimism considering that John Kerry and Al Gore lost the white vote by 17 and 12 points respectively. Among whites, he does well with women, the affluent and college grads but fares poorly among low-income earners and Catholics -- key swing groups that handed Hillary Clinton stunning blowouts in West Virginia and Kentucky.

How much does his race factor into tightening contests in Missouri, Wisconsin, Florida, Minnesota and Ohio? Nobody knows -- and that's the problem.

A huge challenge for Obama, insiders say, is simply determining how much skin color will matter in November. Race is nearly impossible to poll -- no one ever says "I'm a racist" -- and no campaign wants it revealed they are even asking questions on the issue.

"It's the uncertainty that kills me -- we know it's going to be factor, but how big a factor?" asks a Democratic operative with ties to the Obama camp. "How do you even measure such a thing?

Adding to the jitters: GOP surrogates like New York Rep. Pete King have vowed to make Obama's relationship with Rev. Jeremiah Wright a centerpiece during the homestretch.

2. Obama's strength in Virginia may be overhyped. His chances of ending the Democrats 44-year losing streak in the commonwealth are pretty good - thanks to the explosive growth of the liberal D.C. suburbs, and a 147,000 spike in voter registration sure to benefit Democrats. But Obama's aides privately concede his odds in Virginia are probably no better than 50-50 and that the state is far from a lock-solid hedge if he loses Ohio and Florida.

3. Michigan's in play for McCain. In the year of the downturn, the hard-hit upper Midwest should be prime Obama country. Instead it's a potential minefield. Obama is still ahead by two to five points here - similar to margins of victory enjoyed by Gore and Kerry in the last two presidential contests- but McCain has quietly crept up over the past month and could vault ahead if he anoints ex-Gov. Mitt Romney. Simmering tensions between predominantly-black Detroit and its white suburbs could hurt Obama. And McCain's surrogates were handed a gift in the jailing of Obama supporter Kwame Kilpatrick, Detroit's mayor.
"Watch Michigan -- the Democrats think they've got it but they don't," says Quinnipiac's Peter Brown, a longtime Michigan observer. "Obama should be killing [McCain] there, but there's a lot more racial tension in Michigan than in other states."

Obama also hasn't pulled away in other Democrat-friendly neighboring states, watching leads in Wisconsin and Minnesota erode over the last month.

4. Bad times could be good for McCain. If anger helps Democrats, fear advantages Republicans. A growing number of Democratic strategists worry that some swing state voters may opt for McCain if the economy veers from merely awful to downright terrifying. The typical political calculus - that bad economic times will deliver the White House to Democrats - may not hold if people start viewing the downturn as, essentially, a national security crisis that can't be entrusted to a novice. And that was McCain's underlying message in his Paris Hilton ad: Bank failures, soaring gas prices and plummeting house values are forms of economic terrorism and he's an all-purpose anti-terror warrior.

"John McCain is a known quantity," says Bob Kerrey, who thinks Obama will ultimately prevail. "You don't look at John and say, ‘Who the heck is he?' he's a veteran, he's a guy who got pretty banged up in Vietnam. He can deal with crisis. There's some uncertainty about Senator Obama."

The good news for Obama, of course, is that McCain - who infamously admitted he "never understood" economics - is loathed by unions, was somnambulant at the dawn of the housing meltdown and still gropes for a coherent economic policy that doesn't include the words "offshore drilling." But he doesn't have to win the argument, just reinforce doubts about Obama with wavering swing state voters. The Illinois senator still enjoys a major edge on the economic issues, but his 20-point June lead on the who-can-best-fix-the-economy question slipped to a 17-point edge in July, according to the Pew Research Center.

"Obama wins on the economy," said Guy Cecil, Hillary Clinton's field director during the primaries. "But it will be interesting to see if McCain's able to close the economic gap."

5. Where have you gone, Ross Perot? Bill Clinton, the lone two-term Democratic president since FDR, wouldn't have been elected if independent Ross Perot hadn't siphoned 19 percent of the vote in 1992. Former Georgia Rep. Bob Barr, staging an indie bid from McCain's right, has little cash and doesn't seem to be a factor in competitive states.

6. The Legacy of LBJ, Jimmy and Bubba. Barack Obama would have been a trailblazer no matter what - but the Democrats' trail to the White House has been remarkably narrow since 1960, accommodating only southern whites with border-state strength: Lyndon Johnson, Jimmy Carter and Bill Clinton. (Add Al Gore if you're counting the popular vote.)

7. Americans may want divided government. Some Democratic operatives think a possible landslide for their party in congressional races could backfire on Obama.

"Fairly or not, folks think he's pretty liberal and nobody wants a pair of Pelosi's running things," says a New York-based Democratic consultant.

Adds Bob Kerrey: "The country's still pretty divided... people may want a divided government. They want change but I'm not sure that the Democratic agenda has the support of a majority of Americans."

[Bluemyboy]

All right......McCain takes the lead in the Polls.....hmmm who on Earth called that?

McCain is no longer +200....now he is +125.

I still think that is too high, especially when he is ahead in some polls. The republicans know how to win an election.

Palin looks like she might be a good choice, although I still would have preferred Mitt on the ticket...I can live with Palin.

[Bluemyboy]

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